SI Siris and Pyxus nomos in auction

[paparoupa]

These two coins appear in 2 different auctions of the same german auctioneer. One is currently for auction the other was sold last year. I am not convinced at all and I think they are both fakes. Any views are welcome. Apologies for the English...

[King John]

In fact they seem too "artificial". Here's the comparison with an authentic specimen sold in the past.

 

Leu Numismatik AG, Auction 81, 16 May 2001, lot 24

Magna graecia
Lucania
Siris and Pyxos
Estimate: CHF 28'000.00
Stater (Silver, 8.15 g), c. 520. Bull standing to left on dotted ground line, head turned back to right; cable border. Rev. Bull, incuse, standing to right on incuse ground line, head turned back to left; herring-bone pattern rayed border. Basel 166. Burlington 79 (Evans, this coin). Gulben-kian 83. SNG ANS 816. Traité 2085, pl. LXVII, 3. Very rare. Beautifully toned. Reverse struck from a worn die, otherwise, extremely fine.
Ex Bank Leu 42, 12 May 1987, 52 and from the collections of R. Jameson, 344, Sir A.J. Evans, and Sir E. Bunbury, SWH 15 June 1896, 150. This is an exceptionally attractive example of a rare and enigmatic coinage. The coins were joint issues produced by two small cities north of Sybaris: Pyxos, present-day Policastro Bussentino on the golf of Policastro, and Siris, a town on the opposite Ionian coast to the east. Another theory proposes that the second town was Sirinos, located in the mountains 30 kilometers to the east of Pyxos. This theory was advanced because we know that Siris was conquered by its neighbors in c. 570 and, thus, could not have struck coins after that date. However, recent archaeological evidence suggests that Siris was refounded shortly thereafter. Yet another possibility is that the inhabitants of Siris fled to Pyxos after the fall of their city, and coins were issued in the name of Pyxos and the Sirinians living in Pyxos (such joint coinages were later struck by Sybarite refugees in other cities after the destruction of Sybaris in 510). In any event this coinage was strongly under Sybarite influence, and no further coins seem to have been struck after Kroton's defeat of that city.

[VALTERI]

Also see   " Incusi di Siri e Pixunte " , November 6 2015

[paparoupa]

Thanks Valteri, I checked the old topic and as far as I can understand with google translate I agree with acraf that the style of the bull is like sybaris and the only thing that resembles the known pyxoes coins is the ethnic that looks exactly the same. Unfortunately the links with the pdf files don't work anymore

The 2 suspect coins have different centering but are from the same dies. Either someone discovered a hoard of an unknown type and is slowly disposing it in the market or this a a completely modern fabrication. Looking at the auction venue I tend to believe they are modern fabrications.

[medievale]

la mia opinione su questa presunta siris e pixyus, e un conio madificato della piu comune sybari, non si puo dire che e un so ma una replica approssimativa moderna come dire come quelle che vendono le bancarelle di souvenir davanti ai musei,falanche questa volta poca professionalita anzi zero da parte del presunto venditore professionista.    my opinion on this alleged siris and pixyus, and madificato minting of Sybari more common, you can not say that and I know but a modern replica rough like saying like those who sell the souvenir stands in front of museums, falanche this time little professionalism indeed zero by the alleged professional seller.
          

[acraf]

In my opinion these two coins appear reproduced using a special technique. I do not know the technology, but these coins , with same dies, seem to be made by electro-erosion.
I may be wrong, but it seems that this technique will inevitably play a smooth side and a porous side.
I was impressed by the detail that the first coin has the porous side at obverse, while the second coin has the porous side at reverse. No one is smooth or porous on both sides.
Then, especially in the second coin the letters seem retouched, with more fresh and incongruous reliefs....
Someone can better explain this particular technique, which seems to be one of several used to counterfeit coin.

[medievale]

incredibile incredibile incredibile incredibile  e stato battuto per 22000 euros  hummer price

[danielealberti]

conio identico, patina molto simile, mancanza di qualsiasi segno d'usura.... no, non mi piacciono

[skubydu]

48 minuti fa, danielealberti dice:

conio identico, patina molto simile, mancanza di qualsiasi segno d'usura.... no, non mi piacciono

Ciao un abbraccio, ci mancavi tanto

skuby 

[acraf]

Il 28/8/2017 at 19:16, skubydu dice:

Ciao un abbraccio, ci mancavi tanto

skuby 

Ben tornato Daniele e spero di risentirti....

[danielealberti]

certo, sono quà con più voglia di prima di imparare.

Ogni tanto i fatti della vita ti fanno deviare dal percorso, ma le grandi passioni, se sono vere, prima o poi ti riesplodono tra le mani e ti ritrovi più vivo di prima.

 

daniele

[skubydu]

1 ora fa, danielealberti dice:

certo, sono quà con più voglia di prima di imparare.

Ogni tanto i fatti della vita ti fanno deviare dal percorso, ma le grandi passioni, se sono vere, prima o poi ti riesplodono tra le mani e ti ritrovi più vivo di prima.

 

daniele

Grande Daniele, la mia massima stima ed ammirazione.

skuby

[numa numa]

Il 26/3/2017 at 23:56, medievale dice:

incredibile incredibile incredibile incredibile  e stato battuto per 22000 euros  hummer price

They will never ever  have my money 

Modificato 4 Settembre, 2017 da numa numa