Tetradracma di Agrigento in asta

[paparoupa]

25 minutes ago, Giov60 said:

I'll play devil's advocate.
First of all, it doesn't look like a  Westermark 423.2 to me: using my smartphone, I'm having some difficulty comparing it, but the spacing between the letters k and P (R) isn't preserved. The crab's carapace also looks different to me, so it could be an unrecorded die (a not so unlikely eventuality, given that other well-performed die series have also shown flaws, and I'm referring in particular to Ierardi's classification of the Syracuse tetras).

secondly, some tetras classified by Westermark in period 2 (legend 4) would have P instead of R: the die in question is indicated as O6, but in reality the examination of the plates shows that it is the O11 (therefore an error on the part of the author) - see specimens 364.23, 365.1, 366.1 … However, it is not that die.

An occluded original die cannot be ruled out.

However, even from the comparative examination of@Aitna77, I realized why the eagle looked like a pigeon to me: the beak is slender rather than strong. Furthermore, the entire coin appears with "restricted" details, as is characteristic of a transfer die or die-cast coin.

In essence, thanks to the important contributions and examination of the  Westermark (thanks again to@Emilio Siculo!) I further confirmed to myself that it is 90% a fake.

———————

I'll play devil's advocate.

First of all, it doesn't look like Westermark 423.2 to me: using my smartphone, I'm having some difficulty comparing, but the distance between the letters k and P (R) isn't preserved. The crab's carapace also looks different to me, so it could be an unlisted pair of dies (not such an unlikely possibility, given that other well-designed die series have also shown missing elements, and I'm referring in particular to Ierardi's classification of the Syracuse tetras).

Secondly, some tetras classified by Westermark in period 2 (legend 4) appear to have a P instead of R: the die in question is listed as O6, but in reality, examination of the plates shows it to be O11 (therefore an error on the author's part) - see specimens 364.23, 365.1, 366.1... However, it's not those dies.

An occluded original die cannot be ruled out.

However, even from@Aitna77comparative examination, I realized why the eagle looked like a pigeon to me: the beak is slender rather than strong. Furthermore, the entire coin appears to have shrinked details, as is characteristic of a transfer die or a die-cast or pressofused coin.

In essence, thanks to the important contributions and the examination of the Westermark's work (thanks again to@Emilio Siculo), I have further confirmed myself that this is a fake with a probability of about 90%.

 

 

100%

Apart from all other indicators,  this die combination does not exist in westmark 

[skubydu]

Moneta pressata a mio parere …

[Antonino1951]

SalveSkubydu,a parziale deroga delle mie decisioni,posso spiegare perchè concordo con te:già come diceva qualcuno ,a pancia senza scomodare accoppiamenti o altro,la moneta appare strana,incavata nei fondi,aquila/piccione,spacchi laterali tipici di monete soggette ad ulteriore colpo su una superficie già stressata,cosa che puo accadere con tondelli riconiati ab antiquo.conclusione,per me metallo autentico,non il conio.ora verranno i soloni bibliofili😀 che latitano a farci il processo,ma stavolta sono in buona compagnia

[Emilio Siculo]

58 minuti fa, Antonino1951 dice:

SalveSkubydu,a parziale deroga delle mie decisioni,posso spiegare perchè concordo con te:già come diceva qualcuno ,a pancia senza scomodare accoppiamenti o altro,la moneta appare strana,incavata nei fondi,aquila/piccione,spacchi laterali tipici di monete soggette ad ulteriore colpo su una superficie già stressata,cosa che puo accadere con tondelli riconiati ab antiquo.conclusione,per me metallo autentico,non il conio.ora verranno i soloni bibliofili😀 che latitano a farci il processo,ma stavolta sono in buona compagnia

 

Il problema è che se vogliamo condividere in modo strutturato della numismatica è necessario studiare i conii, i tondelli, e tutti i dettagli del caso con la bibliografia in mano. Le impressioni non aiutano i neofiti, a volte ingannano, nei casi difficili, e potenzialmente danneggiano terzi interessati a vario titolo.

Buone monete e buone ferie

ES

[Antonino1951]

Salve,ho finito le rezioni,ma concordo

[numa numa]

Aitna and Paparoupa rationally described and motivated what I  felt  by instinct

[VALTERI]

A margine dell' interessante discussione, vale una curiosità osservare che la didascalia ci ricorda che l' esemplare é già passato 26 anni orsono, per lo stesso venditore .