Gradazione USA vs ITALIA

[dommga63]

Buongiorno,

non so se questo è il forum giusto, ma necessito di esperti per rispondere alla domanda della discussione, cioè qual'è la vera corrispondenza tra la scala Sheldom USA e quella italiana? http://www.lamonetapedia.it/index.php/Conservazione

Ciò penso sia importante per tanti collezionisti come me che acquistano monete anche a livello internazionale. Anche perchè a riguardo non è che ci sia molto accordo. Penso che quindi urge avere un parere da esperti sulla corrispondenza tra i 2 sistemi di gradazione della conservazione.

Per quello che ho potuto capire dovremmo avere:

Gruppo MB (Fine)

..............F12-15 (fine) = MB :ph34r:

Gruppo BB (Very Fine)

..............VF20 (Very fine) = BB :angry:

..............VF25 = BB+ <_<

..............VF30 = BB/SPL :(

..............VF35 = qSPL :)

Gruppo SPL (Extemely fine)

..............EF40 o XF40 = SPL ;)

..............EF45 o XF45 = SPL+ :P

..............AU50 - 53 = SPL/FDC :rolleyes:

..............AU50 - 55 = qFDC :D

Infine esistono 4 gradi di FDC :o (MS-mint state o BU-brillant uncirculated) che gli americani distinguno non sulla base della circolazione (sono tutti gradi di monete non circolate), ma sulla base della perfezione del conio, pulizia etc. che nella nostra gradazione non esistono in quanto il nostro qFDC corrisponderebbe ad una minima circolazione.

Ringrazio gli esperti per i chiarimenti in proposito.

Modificato 3 Marzo, 2011 da dommga63

[villa66]

(With apologies for English only, so the online translator will not make a difficult topic even more difficult), from one American's perspective:

VG = VG8 = B

VG+ = VG10 = B+

F = F12 = MB

F+ = F15 = MB+

VF = VF20 = BB

VF+ = VF30 = BB+

EF = EF40 = SPL

EF+ = EF45 = SPL

AU = AU50 = SPL+

AU+ = AU55, AU58 = SPL+

UN, BU = MS60, MS61, MS62 = qFDC

BU, BU+ = MS63, MS64, MS65, etc. = FDC

I note also—as is often remarked on the Forum—that American grading seems to have more tolerance for nicks and other contact marks. Generally, I believe that is true, because:

1) “Net” grading is in some disrepute in the U.S. That is, (circulated) coins should get whatever technical grade their state of preservation merits, and any damage should be noted separately. (In Italian coin grading, many nicks, scratches, and other damage is “netted out,” with—for example—an SPL coin quietly becoming a BB, etc., etc.)

2) In the U.S., nicks and scratches are not automatically a sign of circulation; these are often simply “contact” marks resulting from transportation from mint to bank (which distances were often far greater than in Italia, and in the old days especially—by often cruder means of transport than in Italia.)

3) Because much American coin-grading (especially in the Uncirculated grades MS60-70) descends from our experience with Morgan and Peace dollars—and because these big, heavy coins were moved around in vaults (without entering circulation) for decades, it became quite common to for American collectors to see heavily nicked but uncirculated coins...again reinforcing the idea being that nicks, scratches, and other contact marks are often incidental to the manufacture and governmental storage of coins, and not something to be automatically regarded as a sign of circulation.

Finally, maybe the most important—and misunderstood—difference with what is commonly written (including the Forum’s grading guide you referenced) is that the American UNC/BU of MS60-62 quality is not equivalent to an FDC, but to a “qFDC” instead.

Hope this helps!

:) v.

[dommga63]

CORREGGO IL MIO PRECEDENTE POST

Buongiorno,

non so se questo è il forum giusto, ma necessito di esperti per rispondere alla domanda della discussione, cioè qual'è la vera corrispondenza tra la scala Sheldom USA e quella italiana? http://www.lamonetapedia.it/index.php/Conservazione

Ciò penso sia importante per tanti collezionisti come me che acquistano monete anche a livello internazionale. Anche perchè a riguardo non è che ci sia molto accordo. Penso che quindi urge avere un parere da esperti sulla corrispondenza tra i 2 sistemi di gradazione della conservazione.

Per quello che ho potuto capire dovremmo avere:

Gruppo MB (Fine)

..............F12-15 (fine) = MB :ph34r:

Gruppo BB (Very Fine)

..............VF20 (Very fine) = BB :angry:

..............VF25 = BB+ <_<

..............VF30 = BB/SPL :(

..............VF35 = qSPL :)

Gruppo SPL (Extemely fine)

..............EF40 o XF40 = SPL ;)

..............EF45 o XF45 = SPL+ :P

..............AU50 - 53 = SPL/FDC :rolleyes:

..............AU55 - 58 = qFDC :D

Infine esistono 4 gradi di FDC :o (MS-mint state o BU-brillant uncirculated) che gli americani distinguno non sulla base della circolazione (sono tutti gradi di monete non circolate), ma sulla base della perfezione del conio, pulizia etc. che nella nostra gradazione non esistono in quanto il nostro qFDC corrisponderebbe ad una minima circolazione.

Ringrazio gli esperti per i chiarimenti in proposito.

Modificato 12 Marzo, 2011 da dommga63

[dommga63]

(With apologies for English only, so the online translator will not make a difficult topic even more difficult), from one American's perspective:

VG = VG8 = B

VG+ = VG10 = B+

F = F12 = MB

F+ = F15 = MB+

VF = VF20 = BB

VF+ = VF30 = BB+

EF = EF40 = SPL

EF+ = EF45 = SPL

AU = AU50 = SPL+

AU+ = AU55, AU58 = SPL+

UN, BU = MS60, MS61, MS62 = qFDC

BU, BU+ = MS63, MS64, MS65, etc. = FDC

I note also—as is often remarked on the Forum—that American grading seems to have more tolerance for nicks and other contact marks. Generally, I believe that is true, because:

1) “Net” grading is in some disrepute in the U.S. That is, (circulated) coins should get whatever technical grade their state of preservation merits, and any damage should be noted separately. (In Italian coin grading, many nicks, scratches, and other damage is “netted out,” with—for example—an SPL coin quietly becoming a BB, etc., etc.)

2) In the U.S., nicks and scratches are not automatically a sign of circulation; these are often simply “contact” marks resulting from transportation from mint to bank (which distances were often far greater than in Italia, and in the old days especially—by often cruder means of transport than in Italia.)

3) Because much American coin-grading (especially in the Uncirculated grades MS60-70) descends from our experience with Morgan and Peace dollars—and because these big, heavy coins were moved around in vaults (without entering circulation) for decades, it became quite common to for American collectors to see heavily nicked but uncirculated coins...again reinforcing the idea being that nicks, scratches, and other contact marks are often incidental to the manufacture and governmental storage of coins, and not something to be automatically regarded as a sign of circulation.

Finally, maybe the most important—and misunderstood—difference with what is commonly written (including the Forum’s grading guide you referenced) is that the American UNC/BU of MS60-62 quality is not equivalent to an FDC, but to a “qFDC” instead.

Hope this helps!

:) v.

In this correspondence there isn't any gradations that match with our BB/SPL and SPL/FDC which are used very ferquently.

Thus I'm still convinced that best corrispondence table is that below:

Gruppo MB (Fine)

..............F12-15 (fine) = MB

Gruppo BB (Very Fine)

..............VF20 (Very fine) = BB

..............VF25 = BB+

..............VF30 = BB/SPL

..............VF35 = qSPL

Gruppo SPL (Extemely fine)

..............EF40 o XF40 = SPL

..............EF45 o XF45 = SPL+

..............AU50 - 53 = SPL/FDC

..............AU55 - 58 = qFDC

Infine esistono 4 gradi di FDC (MS-mint state o BU-brillant uncirculated) che gli americani distinguno non sulla base della circolazione (sono tutti gradi di monete non circolate), ma sulla base della perfezione del conio, pulizia etc. che nella nostra gradazione non esistono in quanto il nostro qFDC corrisponderebbe ad una minima circolazione.

Modificato 12 Marzo, 2011 da dommga63

[dommga63]

:ph34r:

Modificato 12 Marzo, 2011 da dommga63