Liguria X contremarca sul testone di Genova

[sayerghita]

Does anyone know the reason for an X countermark on the reverse of a Genoa testone of Francisco I, King of France ?   The coin is a variety of CNI III, p.214,23

[matteo95]

Hi,
First of all congrats for your nice teston.

The countermark is interesting ; honestly it is the first time that i see one on this genoese coinage. Can you provide a bigger image of the only countermark , please ?

Matteo

[adamaney]

Congrats! Seems not "X" to me.

[sayerghita]

Thank you both for your interest. Here is the c/m blown up as best as I can.  It is not clearly an X but it seems to me it could be.  When I first saw it, I thought it might be graffiti but CNI lists a variety with an X c/m so it seems reasonable to assume this testone likewise has an X c/m.  Would appreciate any information or comments you have (in English or Italian). 

Sorry, I am having difficulty attaching the photo.  I will post these comments and then post the photo separately.

[sayerghita]

Here is the enlarged photo of the cm

Genoa Francois I Testone X cm.snag

[matteo95]

46 minuti fa, sayerghita dice:

Here is the enlarged photo of the cm

Genoa Francois I Testone X cm.snag

I am sorry but I can't read the file

[adamaney]

Me too

[principesax]

it' s similar to this countermark. Asta ghiglione 1996 lo 202 testone antoniotto adorno.

[sayerghita]

Exactly.  Do you know why this coin was countermarked and by whom ?

[principesax]

if think this countermark isn't a genoa countermark. It think the countermark is used to extend the validity of this Coin in another state that has important commercial relation with genoa but I don't know with state use this countermark. I think this because in carmagnola state use the genoa castle countermark for this reason.

[sayerghita]

Thank you, Principe Sax.  That makes sense.  Of course, I would love to know which state.

I obtained the enlargement of the c/m using Snag. I now find this program requires special software to open - I apologise.  There must be another way but in the meantime I printed it and scanned the print. Here is the result which you should all be able to open.

[principesax]

this coin was part of Pesce collection. I saw it in Christis catalogue 2001

[matteo95]

if I am not wrong it was sold in 2003 not 2001

[sayerghita]

In CNI there are 2 varieties of this Antionotto Adorno testone with the X c/m : III,p.207,29 (Tav. IX,13) and 208,40.  There is also a mezzo testone (III,p.210,56).  They all differ from your coin in that the c/m is on the reverse, not the obverse.

However, no explanation of the reason for the c/m is given.   I cannot  find the catalogues of  Asta Ghiglione 1996 or of the Pesce Collection sold by Christie's on the internet.   Am I right in assuming neither had any explanation of the reason for the c/m ?

[sayerghita]

Another question on a Genoa countermark.  Here is a Genoa c/m on a 1641 Utrecht lion daalder.  Does anyone have any idea of who had this coin countermarked and why ?

Happy Christmas !

 

[adamaney]

This daalder too is well known by genoese coins collectors.

 

[principesax]

I like a lot your coin I find the foto of this one in ex collezione Rinaldo very similar, in my point of view, to your.

[sayerghita]

So when did Genoa countermark these coins and why ?

[principesax]

yes it is the genoa countermark. The countermark could meaning the genoa influence in that territory Carmagnola (I think)

[matteo95]

12 minuti fa, principesax dice:

yes it is the genoa countermark. The countermark could meaning the genoa influence in that territory Carmagnola (I think)

There are two interesting articles about these coins written by Pesce. 

The suggested meaning  is quite different from your. 

[principesax]

commercial relations from Saluzzo State and Genoa in particular with Banco di San Giorgio. Probably this coin was accepted in Genoa State too

[sayerghita]

How do I obtain these articles by Pesce ?

[principesax]

it's written in Italian . Matteo95 if you want can sell you a copy of this book that contain a lot of article written by Giovanni Pesce but all are written in italian

Modificato 26 Dicembre, 2017 da principesax

[principesax]

Your coin is similar to this one

[adamaney]

13 ore fa, principesax dice:

Your coin is similar to this one

Questo non genuino (bulinato)